我是12家公司的投资人和3个孩子的母亲 | 专访风投 DC&F Capital 合伙人 Dagmar Bottenbruch

Dagmar: 我叫 Dagmar Bottenbruch。我目前主要的工作是担任投资公司 DC&F Capital Partners 的合伙人。DC&F 是我和另外两个合伙人去年共同成立的投资公司。我们的宗旨是服务德国企业，尤其是中小型企业，帮助他们进一步参与到创业生态系统中。

我们认为，“旧经济”下的传统公司和“新经济”公司（比如初创公司）之间的交流还不够充分。在我看来，它们是可以互相学习和帮助的。但现实状况是，这两种类型的企业间交流还很少。恕我直言，大部分企业的风投部门并没有做好他们的工作，而是烧掉了不少钱。

我们想改变这种情况。

一方面，我们希望帮助德国企业投资初创公司，并提供例如寻找项目、项目分析、尽职调查的专业服务。另一方面，我们也会和创业者紧密合作，尤其是那些还没有任何创业经验的创业者。我们希望可以使他们双方无论从战略层面还是经济收益上都可以实现共赢，找到成功的退出策略。

Dagmar: My name is Dagmar Bottenbruch. My main job is General Partner at the investment company DC&F Capital Partners. We want to help German corporates, maybe not the very large ones, but the layer right below to get closer to the startup ecosystem. It is a company that I co-founded with two partners and that went active last year.

We think, there isn't enough dialogue between the “old economy” companies and the so-called “new economy” companies, i.e., the startups. I believe both universes can learn a lot from each other and help each other. However, in many cases, they do not communicate well enough. Most corporate VCs do not work that successfully - with all respect - and tend to burn quite a bit of money.

We want to change that.

We want to bring capital from these German corporates into startups and give them a very professional service when it comes to sourcing, analysis, or due diligence. We also work intensely with the founders, particularly when they are first time founders. Hopefully, we lead them to a successful exit for mutual benefit in terms of a financial and strategic return eventually.

Dagmar: 我主要有三条标准。

首先，产品或者服务所面向的市场很重要。你要十分清楚你的竞争力是什么，是能提供更好的产品和服务？还是你在某个领域是第一个吃螃蟹的人？还没有人涉足的领域往往隐藏着巨大的商机。

其次，我会注重创业团队本身。除了有漂亮的点子和令人信服的商业计划书，这个团队有能力把想法付诸实践和把公司做大吗？

第三点是投资的时机。投资既不能太早也不能太迟，因为这会很大程度上影响项目的成败和融资情况。

挑选出将来会成功的初创企业不是那么容易的事，做出正确选择的概率其实是极低的。每年都有不计其数的初创公司倒闭。但是一旦你碰巧押对一家独角兽企业，这一项投资就可以弥补其他所有的损失了。

Dagmar: I think there are three main components.

One is the total addressable market of the product or the service that you offer. You have to clarify what you are offering, whether you will do it better, or even do it first? What has never been done before can be an amazing opportunity.

The second is the founder team. Is this a team that does not just have an excellent idea and business plan, but that can also execute on a plan and grow a business successfully?

The third is the timing. It should be neither too early nor too late, impacting your success and your ability to raise funds.

Picking the winners is difficult. The probabilities are very much against you. Many, many startups fail. But of course, if you happen to land the unicorn, you can make it all up.

Dagmar: 我以不同的身份活跃在创业圈很久了，我做过创始人或联合创始人，也做过管理者和投资人。在成立 DC&F 之前，我也以投资人的身份积极参与初创公司投资十年之久。互联网泡沫的时候，我在意大利为一家线上证券经纪人公司组建当地的分部。那是我第一次和数字化、可规模化的商业模型打交道。基于我的经历，可以说我还是非常了解这个领域的。

寻找项目的一个方法是通过人脉关系。我的人际关系网很广，其中也包括女性的社交圈。我的合伙人们也都来自不同的城市，他们都有自己的人脉。另外我们也会通过企业孵化器或者企业加速器获得项目资源。其实一旦你已经在这个圈子也投资了一些项目，一来二去，就会接触到很多创业项目……对我们来说项目资源从来不是问题。我每天都泡在成堆的投资建议书里，从来不会闲着。

Dagmar: I have been around in this universe as founder or co-founder, manager, and investor. Before founding DC&F, I have been a very active startup investor for over ten years. I was living in Italy during the Dot-come bubble, and I built the Italian presence of an online brokerage company. That was my first experience with a digital, scalable business model. So, I think I know the universe quite well.

I have a big network here, also women’s networks. My partners at DC&F are from different cities, and they also have their networks. Sourcing through accelerators and incubators is also possible. One thing leads to another, especially when you have been around and made many investments already. You get inundated with investment proposals. I would say that sourcing has never been an issue. There is plenty to do and to look at.

Dagmar：从收益上说，最成功的投资是 Omio（编者注：Omio 是一款线上设计旅行方案的网站，之后会提到）。当然，谁能预料到出现新冠疫情这样的黑天鹅，导致整个旅游业一夜之间深陷泥潭呢？

投资收益最差的是我和我哈佛的同学一起在美国做的一项投资，那是很多年前的事了。其实我们的产品很好，但我们在公司运营上犯了很多错误，我作为投资人也犯了很多错误。这也是为什么即使我们的产品很好，但这次投资还是以失败告终。

我们推出的产品是一种有机混合饮料。这个饮料的特色是只含三分之一的糖而且是健康的有机糖。美国人摄入的碳酸软饮料的数量之大，已经严重损害健康。我同学设计它的初衷是为了帮助美国人摆脱这个非常有害的习惯。

我们那时选择了零售门店渠道作为销售方式，但事实上我们从一开始就应该采用线上分销策略。加入零售门店的问题在于，我们只有九个单品。但你随便走进一家美国超市，眼前都有成千上万的产品供你挑选，我们的产品又怎么能脱颖而出呢？在这种情况下，我们实际需要的推广经费比我们计划的要多得多。

但其实最大的问题是时机。当下的风投市场上新概念食品和饮料都是投资人眼中的热门产品。但我们创立公司的时候，这股浪潮还没有到来。

如果你是要实实在在地生产产品，如何正确地运用营运资金来维持周转是一个巨大的挑战。你要知道，银行并不会放贷给初创公司，尤其是在它们现金流还不够强劲的时候。虽然我们这两个哈佛毕业生对于处理数据不在话下，但我们的确低估了营运资金对公司带来的影响。

我希望我们可以重新来一次，因为我觉得饮料市场相较当时有了很大的改变。即使现在我仍旧认为我们当时开发的产品很棒，但从投资效益上来说，那确实是我最糟糕的投资。

Dagmar: In terms of financial performance, Omio (an online travel planning tool, going to talk about it later) is the best one. Of course, who would have thought that we get such a black swan in the shape of Corona that can basically destroy whole sectors or put them into deep trouble overnight?

The worst in terms of financial performance was an investment that I made many years ago with one of my Harvard Business School classmates in the US. It was a fantastic product, but we made many mistakes as a company, and I made many mistakes as an investor. That's why it turned out to be a disaster, even though, as I said, the product was excellent.

It was a liquid organic drink mix with only one-third of the sugar, and the sugar was of organic sources. My classmate had designed it to help the Americans get off the very damaging habit of consuming way too many carbonated soft drinks. But we should have, from the first moment, worked on a digital distribution strategy as opposed to try to get into retailers, which we did. We had nine SKUs, but you go into an American supermarket that has 25000 SKUs. So, how do you find the product? We would have needed a much bigger promotion budget.

But the biggest problem was timing. The boom we have been seeing recently with new VC financed food products and beverage products didn't happen at the time. When you produce a “real” product， you have real challenges in terms of working capital to finance the pipeline. Of course, banks do not give loans to a startup, especially when they are not yet cash-flow positive. Two Harvard Business School graduates who really knew how to crunch the numbers, really underestimated the working capital impact….

I wish we could do this again, because I think we will see many changes in the drinks market. That was my worst investment in terms of performance, even though I still believe it was a great product.

Dagmar：Wirecard 事件让人觉得不可思议。

我很好奇监管机构一直以来都在做什么？为什么从来没有质疑过 Wirecard 的财务状况？《金融时报》的记者早在一年前就质疑了 Wirecard 财务存在问题。更让人难以置信的是， Wirecard 竟然严词反驳，还将《金融时报》告上法庭（编者注：Wirecard 是德国支付企业，英国金融时报从 2015 年就开始报道 Wirecard 财务存在问题，提出有关该集团账目不一致的疑问，2019 年又以 Wirecard 新加坡内部调查为开始，发布一系列关于 Wirecard 的报道。Wirecard 最终被揭露 19 亿欧元资金不存在，被确认造假，公司最终申请破产）。

当然，你不可能闯入到公司内部调查到底发生了什么，但是至少应该在力所能及的范围内进行深入调查。如此巨额的欺诈案竟然发生在一家上市公司身上，简直是一场灾难。

在我看来，这次欺诈案件会给人们敲响警钟。我很肯定这会促使大家在面对数字化商业模式时更加谨慎，毫无疑问审计公司也应该更好地履行自己的职责。到现在为止，监督/审计和监管到底应该承担什么样的责任，还没有明确的答案，希望我们可以尽快看到调查结果。

Dagmar: Wirecard is an incredible story. I wonder what the supervisory board was doing and how come that was never questioned? The Financial Times journalist had stated close to a year before that there was something wrong. I find it incredible that someone even tried to sue him. Of course, you cannot just invade the company and check what is happening, but maybe digging a little bit deeper is possible. It is a disaster that such a huge fraud happened to a publicly-traded company.

I think this fraud case will have a noticeable impact. I am sure it will prompt people to look a bit more carefully, especially when you deal with digital business models. Also, clearly auditing companies have to do a better job. It is not clear at this point where the supervisory/auditing and regulatory responsibility lies and I sure hope, there will be some answers soon. 

Dagmar：首先，这主要和年龄层有关。在德国或欧洲，大部分年轻人也会使用类似苹果支付或 PayPal 等移动支付软件。但很多年龄较大的人还没有智能手机，更谈不上使用移动支付。当然，这种情况也在迅速改变。

另外，有人不喜欢留下支付记录，而更倾向于用现金支付。通过移动支付，你的信息比如什么时候在哪里消费、买了什么产品就会泄露，那么支付软件背后的科技巨头自然对你了如指掌。当然，基于这些数据的算法使信息投递更精准，消费者就不必被自己不感兴趣的信息骚扰。但从另一方面来说，这些数据也可能被非法操纵。

德国或欧洲与中国相比最大的不同之处在于公众对于快速发展的数字化的接受程度。

不像某些领域，德国在金融科技方面其实做得并不差。因为德国还是有一些拿得出手的金融科技公司的。我想人们以前认为 Wirecard 是其中之一，但正如我们所知，它并不算。

德国还有一些真正优秀的金融科技公司：比如 Ratepay, 这是一家很有看点的支付公司；N26, 这是一家线上银行；还有一些智能投顾（智能投资顾问），比如我曾经投资过的 Vaamo, 它后来被 Moneyfarm 收购。

从消费者的角度来说，智能投顾很好，但其利润率很低，并且未来（至少短期）也不会提高。利润从哪里来？固定收益产品和储蓄产品的收益率都微乎其微，股票市场的估值又已经极高。所以我不确定未来是否会看到智能投顾行业的进一步发展，不过可以确定的是它的利润率不会改善。但智能投顾没有传统银行需要面对的问题。

Dagmar: First of all, it is a generational thing. In Europe and Germany, most of the younger people use Apple Pay or PayPal or whatever it may be, however, many older people don't have smartphones yet, but, of course, this is rapidly changing.

Then some people also do not like to leave a trace everywhere. They prefer to pay cash because they already feel like the big tech companies know everything you do and where and when you purchase what. Of course, you could say it is helpful to some extent to target you better, because you don't get bothered with stuff you are not interested in. But someone can potentially manipulate those data.

The biggest difference compared to China is indeed the acceptance of rapidly progressing digitalization by the broader public.

As far as Fintech is concerned, Germany is not as bad as in some other areas because we have quite a few successful Fintechs. I guess people thought Wirecard was a successful Fintech, but - as we all know it wasn't…. There are several other very good Fintech companies, such as Ratepay, a very interesting company in the payment space; N26, the digital bank, and several roboadvisors. I was invested in roboadvisor Vaamo which was taken over by Moneyfarm.

Roboadvice is great for customers, but it is a very low-margin business. The margins in financial services aren't going to get any better, in the short term, at least, because where are they going to come from? The yields are nothing when you look at fixed income or savings products, and the valuations in the equity markets are sky-high. So, I don't know whether we will see that much more growth and certainly not with better margins. However, they don’t have the problems which the traditional banking sector has to suffer.

Dagmar：德国银行应该做得更好。而目前德国银行在国际上是没有一席之地的。正如我们所知，德意志银行和德国商业银行还都陷在各自的麻烦里。

我认为造成这种局面的原因有很多。

第一， 德国银行陈旧冗余的架构导致隐性成本很高，比如 IT 系统、运营方式、人力资源等方方面面都陈旧不堪。为了应对监管，使得德国银行不得不进一步投入巨大的成本。

除去客观因素，德国银行也有很多自找的麻烦，丑闻一件接着一件，比如 2017 年的 CumEx 的丑闻（编者注：Cum-Ex 是近代来德国最大的税务诈骗案。Cum-Ex 是一种股票交易策略，指的是在分发红利的当天，同时进行出售和再次收购的行为。由于交易时间很近，税务机构无法确定股票产权到底是谁。因此，买卖双方可以从税务局得到资本利得税的退税。由于在德国资本利得税只被征收一次，利用 Cum-Ex 可以得到多次退税，通过该漏洞获得的利益可以进行分配）。德意志银行花在各种诉讼案件上的律师费就高达数百万欧元，随之而来的还有可能更加高额的损失赔偿费。

为了应付高额成本，各家银行开始增加手续费或收取负利率。这些举措肯定不会增加用户对他们的好感。因此，这是金融科技公司的大好机会。因为它们并不像传统银行那样苦于陈旧冗余的架构，它们可以真正地从零开始，打造出即灵活又稳固的平台。这是它们的巨大优势。

第二，零售银行的产品也不是很理想。如果你想要通过你的银行交易股票，银行要求提供的文件和信息绝对会让你抓狂。而且尽管新规定不断出台，你仍旧可能在市场上买到各种不可靠的金融产品。

经常会出现的状况是，人们购买这些产品时并不真正清楚他们买了什么，一不小心可能就损失惨重。当然，这和人们金融知识的多少也有关系。但这是另一个话题，和银行本身无关。

还有一点就是相比于投资，德国人更爱存钱，而银行从储蓄产品上基本赚不到钱，这也让银行的处境雪上加霜。

第三，过于频繁的战略变动也是问题之一。德意志银行曾经试图在国际投行业务中争取一席之地，但最终没有成功。原因很简单，美国银行在投资银行方面做得更好。为了竞争国际投行业务，德意志银行放弃了德国中小型企业的市场。后来德意志银行发现在国际投资银行业务中无法分一杯羹，就打算重新把中小型德国企业做为业务重心，但这些企业的 CFO 们怎么可能买账呢……

因此，改变银行业的必要性和迫切性都毋庸置疑。金融科技正是看住了这个时机，准备大干一场！

Dagmar: Our banks in Germany could be doing better. In international comparison, we are nowhere. As we know, Deutsche Bank and Commerzbank are all in trouble.

I think there are several reasons. First of all, high hidden costs due to German banks’ legacy structure, such as legacy IT, legacy operations, legacy personnel, and legacy everything. Regulation has also hugely added to costs. There are also many home-made problems, one scandal after another, such as the CumEx Scandal in 2017. Especially Deutsche Bank is faced with all kinds of lawsuits that cost millions in legal fees and potentially much higher damage settlements.

So, the banks are starting to add fees or charging negative interest. All of that doesn't make the customers love them. It is why these are great opportunities for the Fintechs. Because when they started, they didn't have such a legacy. They could start from scratch and produce hopefully resilient, robust platforms. That is a huge advantage.

Then, there are the products they offer in retail banking. If today you want to trade stocks with your bank, the paperwork and all the information you have to give are crazy. And despite all of the new regulations, you still have all kinds of terrible financial products in the market.  People buy them and frequently do not know what they are doing and potentially lose a lot of money. Of course, this is yet another problem that has to do with people’s financial literacy or illiteracy. And you cannot blame the banks for that. Finally, the Germans are “savors” and not investors and as saving products offer basically no yield, the situation is difficult.

Last but not least, the frequent change in strategy. Deutsche Bank tried to become a big player in international investment banking. They failed very simply because the Americans do that better. At the time, this also led them to abandon mid- and smaller sized German companies. And later you saw them trying to come back into that market.  But, of course, CFOs have a memory…

So, there is the need, but also the absolute urgency to do something about that and the FinTechs are capturing the opportunity!

Dagmar：不，我不是这个意思。毫无疑问，职场上确实有人区别对待女性，甚至是赤裸裸地歧视。我刚才说的那些也并不代表我从来没在职场中被中伤过。

不过别忘了，有时身为女性也是一种优势。有些人对待女性态度更好，因为他们觉得女性的观点更容易让人接受。这个问题并不是非黑即白的，大部分情况下也没有清晰的界定。我觉得这很大程度上是因人而异的。

我感到非常振奋的是，尤其是在美国，越来越多的女性成为投资人和公司创始人。但是放眼当下德国大公司的管理层或监事会，你会发现还有很多地方需要改进。你可以数数有几个女性成员……

Dagmar：No, I do not want to say that. There is no question that some people have a bad attitude towards women or are even simply outright discriminating. It is not like I have not heard “evil” comments in my life. But one must not forget that sometimes it can be an advantage. Some people even react better to a woman, because they find it easier to accept a woman’s input than another man’s. It is not black or white – there is a huge gray area. I think it depends certainly a lot also on the personality of the people involved.

However, I find it very encouraging to see many more women, especially in the US, as investors and founders. But when you look at the large German corporates’ management boards or supervisory boards, there is a lot of room for improvement. Just count the women…..

Dagmar：疫情或多或少地影响了所有行业。它对于一些行业而言是动力，而对于另一些行业是阻力。疫情之后一些行业可能再也无法回到从前的样子。

任何和出行有关的行业都受到了致命打击。现在的机场像鬼城一般空空荡荡。疫情期间的实践证明其实很多会议都不必亲自到场，而可以通过视频或是电话会议替代。

我觉得监事会会议就是个非常好的例子。大多数公司一年举办四次监事会会议，而这些会议绝大部分都需要参会者亲自到场参加。我觉得把其中两场会议放在线上进行是完全没有问题的，当然我并不认为要把所有工作都转到线上，人与人的互动是极为重要的。比如，在一个不是十分正式的场合里，你更容易萌生新的想法，可以问一些在正式会议上略显不合时宜的问题。

尽管如此，商务出行无疑会遭到重创，我敢说这个行业将会被重新洗牌。

显而易见，飞机制造商和航空公司也被打击得不轻。尽管波音在疫情之前就陷入了不小的困境，当然这很遗憾，毕竟它一直是一家优秀的飞机制造商。航空公司没能躲过此劫。我想它们目前的航线运营量甚至不到过去的百分之二十五。在这种情况下，它们该如何处理庞大的开销呢？所以，我认为它们也许会进行彻底的重组，那么将会有很多人面临失业，而且（就算疫情过去）航空公司也未必会重新雇用被裁掉的员工。

对于胆子大的人来说，也许现在是个投资航空公司的好时机。比如买一些被低估的航空公司，配上优质的客服，就可以重组为一家新的航空公司。因为现在的航空公司客服做得都十分糟糕，而消费者也并不会轻易忘记那些糟糕的经历。拿汉莎航空来说，它靠着德国纳税人的钱维持运转，但依然对消费者趾高气扬。就算疫情过去，消费者会买他们的账吗……

很多小微企业，比如小商铺、餐馆、艺术工作者，都将面临很大的挑战。目前来看，破产法规在疫情期间暂时不适用，也就是说申请破产的程序被推迟了（编者注：根据 2020 年 3 月 27 日出台的德国疫情法案  Coronavirus Act，如果公司的财务状况主要是受到疫情影响并可以证明他们之后有一定偿付能力，则无须马上申请破产），但是如果 2021 年正常的破产法重新启用，那么很多小微企业将很难跨过这道坎 。结果就是它们中的大多数将面临破产，而这无疑会首先影响给它们提供贷款的银行。

在房地产方面，零售商铺、商业街和办公楼也受到了重创。不久的将来租户们很可能接二连三地破产，或者有些租户干脆说，“我们不再需要这么大的办公室了，反正我们一周聚在一起开次会也足够了“，而且办公楼是不是高大上对租户来说也许也不再那么重要了。

而另一方面，有一些行业却从疫情中大大受益，比如 Zoom 和 Teams 这些视频会议软件，以及电子商务、运输物流、云健康平台等等。疫情推动了这些行业的发展，而且即使将来疫情得以控制，这种动力将长期存在。

Dagmar：Every single sector is being affected by Covid-19, some positively, some negatively. I would say some industry sectors will never be the same again.

Anything related to travel has taken a huge hit. When you go to airports, they seem like ghost towns. Many meetings can be done via video conference or conference call.  I think board meetings are a good example. Most companies have four board meetings a year, and in most companies, these board meetings have always been physical, at least for the most part. I see absolutely no problem with having two of them virtual, but I don’t think it is a good idea to virtualize everything.  It is important to have some direct interaction, to be in a less formal setting with a less formal structure so you can bounce around some ideas or ask specific questions that don’t belong in a formal meeting.  But: business travel will be hugely impacted, I dare to say, it will never be the same!

Aerospace or airline companies are very obviously another example. I mean, Boeing was already in huge trouble before Corona, unfortunately, because it used to be a company that produced excellent aircraft. The airlines are battered. I think they are not even at 25 percent of the flights they used to do. What do you do with these cost structures? So, I think we will see huge restructuring, and many people will lose their jobs, and they will not get them back.

For the really daring, it might be a good idea to buy a few cheap airplanes and start a new airline that has good customer service and friendly service. Customer service in air travel has been a disaster recently and people have memories. Take Lufthansa: kept alive by the German taxpayer and still arrogant towards customers. Clearly a very bad idea. People remember…..

Many small businesses, such as small shop owners, restaurants, artists etc are faced with huge challenges. The bankruptcy provisions are currently frozen, so filing for insolvency can be put off, but when the classic bankruptcy procedures come back in 2021, many small businesses will not make it, and then we will see many insolvencies, which will definitely affect the banks.

Retailing and office real estate is going to be battered. When so many tenants are going bankrupt and when suddenly the tenants say, “well, we don't need such a huge office, it is good enough if we get together once a week” and that doesn't necessarily have to happen in a large prestigious office.

But on the other side, there are sectors which are huge beneficiaries, such as Zoom, Teams and basically all the video conferencing providers, e-commerce, delivery of everything, digital health care and many others. These sectors are getting a major tailwind from Corona and this will stay, even if we get Corona under control.

Dagmar：在疫情中整个旅游业都遭到重创，毫无疑问， Omio 也不能幸免。但我没法讲太多细节，因为我的股份现在逐渐被稀释，也就是说现在我的知情权其实也有限。

但我认为 Omio 会渡过难关，因为现在他们的投资人中不乏一些极有名气的投行和风投，比如高盛 (Goldman Sachs)、凯鹏华盈 (Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers)，而且旅行是人们生活里必不可少的一部分，虽然我们还不确定人们什么时候能再恢复对出行的热情。我很欣慰的是，就在不久前他们刚完成了新一轮融资。我希望这能成为他们实现进军亚洲计划的助力。对了，这也是为什么他们会从 GoEuro 更名为 Omio。

Omio 是一个从零搭建起的数字化平台，没有像旅行社一样的固定网点，也完全不需要负担高额的固定成本。所以长期来看，我认为他们会从这样的商业模式中受益。要知道，疫情发生之前就有一些大型的旅行社相继倒闭，而疫情肯定会拉跨更多这样的公司。

因此长期来看，我认为 Omio 的前景还是很不错的。

我的另一家公司 Zizoo 也属于和旅游业相关的公司。它是一个网上租船的平台，比如汽艇、帆船、游艇你都可以在 Zizoo 租到。我认为 Zizoo 是个典型的长期会收益的项目。因为当你想和朋友家人相约出行的时候，没有什么比自己租一艘船更舒适的了。难道你要去订一间食宿全包的三星级酒店或者邮轮吗？你要知道那里自助早餐挤满了人，泳池也乌泱泱都是人。

Zizoo 当然也受到了疫情的影响，主要是因为很多国家都实施了封锁措施。如果你通过 Zizoo 定了一艘在克罗地亚、意大利或是希腊的船，你怎么过去呢？

不过疫情开始后，Zizoo 也没有坐以待毙，而是很好地利用了这段时间。

首先，Zizoo 缩减了一部分销售人员的工时，当下很多德国公司都用这个方法来对抗疫情带来的冲击。接着他们把一部分销售人员调配到产品部门，同时也不断在买新船。他们还利用这段空闲时间研究了一些技术上的问题，要知道在疫情前订单多的时候是绝对不可能有时间做这些的。长期来看，我很看好 Zizoo 的前景，而且他们也会找到合适的市场定位。因为租船出游既有趣又保证了私密性，而且就算你再雇一个开船的工作人员，花费也不高。

Dagmar: Needless to say, Omio like all travel-related companies is badly affected. I cannot tell you details, because my share by now is so diluted that I don’t have information rights anymore. I think, they will survive, because they have many prestigious investors such as Goldman Sachs and Kleiner Perkins and people want to and will travel again, but at a different level and we don’t know when….  It is nice that they managed to close another financing round just recently and I hope they will be successful with their expansion plans into Asia, which is, by the way, why they changed their name from GoEuro to Omio.

In the long run, I think they can probably benefit from the fact that they have built this business digitally from scratch and don't have an expensive physical infrastructure like some other travel companies suffering from a heavy cost structure. Some larger travel operators announced insolvency even before Corona and this will probably continue.

Therefore, I think longer-term, for Omio, it is going to work out fine.

I have another company called Zizoo, an online platform where you can rent boats, sailboats, yachts. I think this is a classic case where in the long term, they will do very well because - honestly - no better place with your family or friends than on a nice boat instead of the classic three-star, all-inclusive resort with tons of people at the lunch buffet and crowded pools, or a cruise ship.

They were also affected, mainly because of the lockdowns in many countries. For example, if you booked a boat through Zizoo in Croatia, Italy or Greece, how would you get there?

But they used the time very well when this whole thing started. Zizoo were able to put some of their people, especially those in Sales, into “Kurzarbeit”, i.e. the furlough, which is a very effective tool that fortunately works in Germany that can weather the storm a little bit. They then shifted some people from Sales into Product and continued to acquire more boats. They also worked on tech-issues that when demand was skyrocketing pre-Corona wasn't possible. I still think that this company has terrific long-term potential and will be well positioned, because boats give you privacy, they are fun and it is not that expensive, even with a hired Skipper.

Dagmar: 我观察到的就是投资人要求的投资协议条款变得稍微严格了一些。毕竟他们会结合疫情的大环境重新评估投资项目，选择在疫情中有上升空间的项目投资。

另外，我注意到风投会要求更高的优先清算权（编者注：优先清算权是指 PE 在目标企业发生清算或出售时，具有的优先于其他普通股股东获得分配的权利），也就是风投希望在退出时得到更多回报。但这并不是说现在从风投那里拿不到钱了。尽管尚在疫情期间，很多风投还是没有停止投资，因为他们相信疫情过后一切又会生机勃勃。

就 DC&F 而言，疫情期间我们还在和许多潜在投资人洽谈，募资进度受到了一些影响。我们错过了一些时机，主要是因为商务出行受限，我们没办法见到投资人。我觉得你可能很难只通过视频会议让人理解如此复杂的商业模式。如果投资人都没有见过你，怎么可能放心把钱交给你呢？至少我不会这样做。尽管如此，我们还是找到了一个非常棒的投资人，我希望我们可以尽快“官宣”。

这就是所谓的，没有“危”哪有“机”。不少公司正在努力抓住这次疫情带来的机遇的。

Dagmar: What I have seen is that generally, the terms are a bit more demanding. Obviously, they have to assess their portfolio companies and invest where there is an opportunity or at least hope coming from Corona.  But I see more aggressive terms, be that liquidation preferences and particularly the valuation, But It is not like companies are not getting funding because there are many VCs with lots of funds, they continue to invest because there will be life after Corona.

And as far as the DC&F is concerned, we were also still in fundraising, in acquiring investors to invest with us. That took a setback because It is a complex business model. We could not do physical meetings anymore. I do not think it is an appropriate business model to explain over a Zoom call, but it looks like we found an amazingly great investor. I hope we can announce it soon. But we lost quite a bit of time, mainly because travel and physical meetings were impossible. Nobody's going to give you money without having seen and met you personally. At least I would not.

Every crisis brings opportunities and there are a lot of interesting companies that seize the opportunities that come from this crisis.

Dagmar：我希望可以为我的投资人们挑选好的项目。当然，我不只是希望而已，而是会竭尽全力实现这个目标。同时，我希望帮助更多的公司创始人和年轻企业家迈向成功，书写精彩的成功故事。

另外，我是一些公司的董事会成员，我希望能为这些公司的持续发展做出贡献。

我还有一些类似志愿者的工作，例如担任德国 CFA 协会和 Climate Bet 项目的监事会成员。Climate Bet 是一个致力于鼓励大家通过改变自己的行为或以其他方式减少二氧化碳排放的项目。

总结起来就是为初创公司和创始人提供帮助、为提高金融从业者素质和提高公众的碳排放意识做出贡献。一句话，努力工作以及快乐生活。 

Dagmar: I hope to pick some amazingly good investments for our investors. I do not just hope, but I'll do my best so that we can deliver that and hopefully continue to help many founders and young entrepreneurs to become successful and create amazing success stories.

I am on some boards. I hope I will do some successful work there, contributing to these companies’ continued or improved success.

I also have some volunteer roles, such as with the German CFA society and now as a volunteer supervisory board member for the Climate Bet project. People joining this project commit to change their behavior or do other useful things to reduce CO2 emissions.

So, a good mix of hard work helping companies and founders, contributing to financial literacy, awareness in carbon, and having a happy life.